## Bosonic quantum error correction with Julien Camirand Lemyre

Download MP3The New Quantum Era, a podcast by Sebastian Hassinger.

Kevin Rowney:And Kevin Rowney.

Sebastian Hassinger:Welcome back to The New Quantum Era. This is Sebastian, and Kevin is with me for a change. Finally, thanks for rejoining. Kevin, good to have you back.

Kevin Rowney:Good to be back, man.

Sebastian Hassinger:The fans have been clamoring for your return. We've got a great episode today. We were made aware of a research paper, out of a group. It's actually a startup called Nord Quantique in Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada. They're a spin out from the University of Sherbrooke, which is quite a good school for, quantum computing research.

Sebastian Hassinger:And they've got some really interesting results in this paper, and we're gonna be speaking to their CEO and cofounder in just a minute. I'm really excited about this conversation, Kevin.

Kevin Rowney:Yeah. Interesting paper. We'll we'll post the link, for the for the team. But, this whole domain of of quantum error correction continues to be just thriving in so many areas. And I think, you know, fascinating both science and physics and math.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:So let's let's dive in, but I think this could be a good one. Welcome back to the new Quantum Era. Hey, it's Kevin Roney. And today we have our guest named doctor Julien Camirand Lemyre. He's the cofounder and CEO of Nord Quantique.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:We'll be digging into the topic of quantum error correction and also about the missions of of North Quantic and other interesting market developments. Welcome.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:It's a real pleasure to be here, Kevin, Sebastian.

Sebastian Hassinger:Hi. Yeah. Thank you.

Kevin Rowney:Hey. So, we usually begin our podcast by asking our guests about their pathway through their arc of their career that led them to quantum computing. Not always a common path for a lot of people trained in physics, but, tell us about, your journey into this interesting domain.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:So, I like to say that I was born and raised in quantum. So starting to be introduced to to the field. So I was doing, quantum physics, during, basically, my whole studies. But at the bachelor's degree, I was fortunate enough to to be working, with a lot of the quantum systems. At first, it was really on quantum material, trying to understand the exotic properties, the exotic magnetic properties, of some, of some materials that were were new to the field.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:But after this, I got, at the master and PhD degree, level. I was introduced to quantum information processing and also quantum computing. We're asked to see a lot of different, physical systems with the objective in mind that we we wanna make a system more scalable, for for quantum computing purposes. And what I've studied at at the University of Sherbrooke at that time was a lot of different systems ranging from spin quitted to devices and also hybrid, spin and superconnecting systems. So a a lot of this work, I've been doing during my my PhD.

Sebastian Hassinger:That's great. Thanks thanks for joining us, Julian. We really appreciate you, spending time with us. And so you were at the University of Sherbrooke. So note Pontic is is a spin out then from from that work that was started there?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Definitely. So, North Pontic is a spin off from, Institute Quantic. So Institute Quantic is a is a very famous, Quantum Institute that is affiliated with University of Sherbrooke. And, before NorthCon six started, so we spin it off from, a famous lab in superconnecting circuits and and device, which is the lab of Alexandre. But this is a theory group.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:So they mostly work on on everything superconnecting circuits. So, trying to make these circuits better and and try finding new protocols also for these and understanding these systems at their very core. But what was closer to our art is, of course, the the work on bosonic cubits that was, being done, by Alexandroup at that moment and really spun off from from this effort, as a company.

Sebastian Hassinger:And so is it fair to Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead.

Sebastian Hassinger:No. It's fine. Go ahead.

Kevin Rowney:Thanks. So is it is it fair to to say that, the North Quantic, one of its major market thesis, its its direction is the exploration of the applications of bosonic qubits. Is that a is that a fair summary?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Definitely. So the idea that we, we we follow so much since we, spun up from from there was really trying to use these systems. So these bosonic systems, to try to make qubits, get that can be, quantum error corrected in and by themselves. And the idea behind this is, of course, trying to use quantum error correction to build better qubits, but also to to make systems that scales better as you add more of and more of these cubits together. And this is really the purpose of, trying to to to build these cubits, but also make it in in a system that can scale afterward.

Sebastian Hassinger:That's really cool. And so, Alexandre, you mentioned, leads the Institute Quantique at University of Sherbrooke. He's part of the the Yale gang, right, along with with, Jay Gambetta and Chad Righetti, and he's the that group that sort of started up, under the the supervision of Gurvin and Sholkov and Devore, and and really was the birthplace of the of the transmon, sort of the first really, really, sophisticated design for for super connecting qubits.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Right? Exactly. So Alexandre was there, during that time. So he was one of the co inventor of the transpods. You're right under that topic.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Of course, he continued doing a lot of great works, here at Institute Quontig, and we're fortunate enough also to have a close collaboration on some of these bosonic systems that we are studying.

Kevin Rowney:So this is I think an interesting area for us to maybe delve down a little bit lower level on the technology and the science. Because I mean, I think for a lot of our audience, they've heard of course of the Transmon system and you know of course, cubit architectures. So they're very familiar, I mean, almost intuitively with the fermionic notion, right, of the way cubits are. But I mean, you know, in your paper and so much of where Norton Quontic is going, you're exploring how trans bonds, right, the the core, fundamental architecture for so much of these advances, is instead set up to operate in a way that creates bosonic qubits. So could could we just get into some more of that, the detail for the benefit of our audience in terms of that that contrast?

Kevin Rowney:Because it it's it's interesting, right, that one architecture can can represent, both, distinct systems.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:And definitely, Kevin. So there's, 2 questions in your question. 1 is about, like, why Bosonic codes and why should we care about these? And the other one is about the architecture and how different or how similar it is to other architecture like, Google or IBM that are also pursuing, the Transmon approach. So I'll start with the first one.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:And this story is basically starts with quantum error correction. So the basic ingredient behind quantum error correction is is redundancy. So if you have a a system that is faulty, not necessarily Qubit, it's true also in classical communication, in classical information processing. Where if you have noise in your system and that you know that you'll be making error, what you would try to do is find ways to mitigate noise, and being able to detect whether an error occurred or not. And this is error correction.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:And for example, if if you're sending a signal to a a distant satellite, in space and you're just trying to communicate with that satellite, if the signal is very faint, maybe it's what you wanna send if you're trying to send a 0 to the satellite, as a message. Maybe you wanna send a string of zeros. So if some of them flip, you'll be able to recover from from just sort of witnessing what happens to these bits. This is really the basic principle that behind error correction is redundancy. So if you wanna correct an attacker, you need some form of redundancy.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Now, in quantum computing, algorithm are different than in classical communication or classical processing, but a basic idea is still the same. So you'll try to leverage some form of redundancy to correct these errors. In basic, Qubit system, where you have, like the transmons, for example, you were mentioning. The way you would do it is use, several instances of this transmon. So maybe a string or an array of these, and try to call this, what we call a logical qubit.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:And then you operate an algorithm in that logical qubit and try to to crack and detect on that qubit. Bosonic code, are different in in that perspective. Because in bosonic code, what we use, is a bunch of photons. So so not only states which is a 0 or a 1, but we can have many, many photons inside a a resonator or a cavity. So we can store them, for millisecond lifetime in superconnecting circuits.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:And these photons, because we have many, we can encode them into a qubit that can can be called a logical qubit, that can be error corrected, by itself. So this is the difference, where bosonic codes differs from from qubit architecture is that we have now this capability of correcting error on single qubits.

Kevin Rowney:So interesting. And, you know, I I guess one of the perspectives that I maybe is due to our audience is that only some of these quantum architectures can realize this sort of like dual use approach, right, of implementing both fermionic and bosonic systems. And so, it's a Transmon is one of those unique architectures. Kind of a kind of a compelling difference. Right?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:So exactly. So and in our case, we don't use Transmon as as the core ingredient. So, if if you if you compare our architecture to to different ones, so more in super connecting circuits, for example. On superconducting circuits, you'll often have a bunch of resonator or strip lines that are are used to, send microwave photons to control transmons. This is how the architecture is usually built.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:In our case, it's it's kind of the reverse. So we will drive transmon, to to be able to control a resonator or a cavity. And the reason we do this is to to to access the physics I was just describing. So access the bosonic properties of of, resonators, and cavities. And and the idea here is just that we can store a lot of photons in there, for for a long period of time and try to control it.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:The thing is in any quantum system, if you wanna build a quantum computer, you need some nonlinearity at some point, and this is where the transmons come into play. In our architecture, this is just used as a means to control the resonator, and the the the photon state inside that resonator.

Sebastian Hassinger:So the transmon is still responsible for the the two level system then?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:The transmon in our case is is used, yes, as a two level system. So we have some ways that we control the the system, like in any super connected qubits where we access other levels. But the point here is just that we use this transmon just to to drive the cavity, and that that's the point of it. You can see this that using this transmon enables us to do some operation, that will be universal, means that we have access to all the setup gates Okay. That we need to control our, super connecting resonator or cavity.

Kevin Rowney:But even for the for these bosonic cubits, I mean, it's it's multiple levels of energy. It's not just

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Yeah.

Kevin Rowney:Exactly. The standard 2. Yes. Right. Yes.

Kevin Rowney:Right. And and

Julien Camirand Lemyre:that goes into effect.

Kevin Rowney:I'm I'm just assuming that gives you the headroom, right, for a lot more redundancy that can be embedded for quantum error correction in in one Mhmm. Transmon. Yeah.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:That that exact exactly the point. So we now leverage, like, these many levels that you are describing. We're able to leverage this to encode some bosonic states, that have quantum correction property. So we we can now, run a set of pulses on these on these, photons that will, provide us the means to do quantum error correction on that system.

Kevin Rowney:Wow. Yeah. Just amazing. And I just I have the impression that you guys must be doing them some pretty detailed custom work right down at the hardware, right down with the firmware. You're not taking somebody's off the shelf QC in doing this.

Kevin Rowney:Or, I mean, don't don't you have to sort of build a lot of this ground up?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Yeah. So a lot of of what we did was actually some some of what we did was not existing, once once we started, so we had to Yeah. Work on it. We had to work art also and everything that is related to control. So how we control the the states, how we improve the control.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:And this is still a very important topic to to our hearts. So we're working hard on on trying to push the quantum error correction limits, as high as possible in these systems.

Sebastian Hassinger:I was gonna ask about control. So is it still, like, room temperature, like, microwave control that you're sort of shooting down into the dill fridge and and manipulating the cubits. It's so that's still the same as as other, like, transmon or other fermionic based superconducting cubits?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Yes. Exactly. So the the platform that we are using is still a super connecting plat a super connecting qubit platform. We like it because it provides us a lot of control and also, like, super connecting circuits are fast to operate. So this is something that, to really really like about this.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:But you're right to say that it's operated in the same way as, a standard transmon chip would be. So we have, microwave signals, that will be sent inside the cables within a a dilution refrigerator to target, our quantum system, at at millikelvin temperature.

Sebastian Hassinger:And, like other, superconducting systems, do you have sort of the the the syndrome detection and then correction loop sort of, from, you know, sort of classical quantum loop that you're gonna need to to perform to to carry out the error correction?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:So on the so let's say we refer to the paper that we that we just out. This is something that we actually didn't need. So the quantum error protocol, that we've implemented at Das Paper is autonomous in the sense that, we run a protocol, so we do send signal to the chip. But the results of this is a, autonomous quantum refraction protocol. So we don't need this feedback loop.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:This is done through a a dissipation process. So there's a reset of the transport qubit at some point in the protocol. This is very technical. But the idea is that we can get rid, of this, feedback loop. Not to say that we won't ever need it.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:So when we have a full architecture, so these tools are also very useful, being capable of of, doing this this meh the measurement detection and then feedback to the quantum system is also important. But we have also different tools which enables, autonomous quantum refraction.

Kevin Rowney:I mean, I think that's a great bridge to to your paper. I mean, that was, I think, one of the main subjects that we wanted to cover during this interview. I mean, there's some pretty interesting results. I mean, not just the autonomous error correction, but, I mean, it it feels like there's, a a rich, array here of of results explored by this this technique that it sounds like where Quantique is a is a pioneer on. Can you give us some of that just summary of the top line results that, really thrilled you from from this research?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Yeah. Definitely. I think one important point we just mentioned. So we've been able to implement an autonomous quantum error correction protocol on-site this this bosonic qubits. But what is more exciting for us is actually what the the results are.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:So we've been able to, to to benchmark the performance of this quantum error correction. How we do it is just we compare the lifetime. So how much the how long the, quantum information remains in in the quantum object, as a function of whether or not we were to apply this quantum compression protocol. And what we've been able to to show is we're actually able to to extend the lifetime of the system showing, like, proof of concept for quantum error correction. So this is, really why we exist.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:So this being able to, do this quantum error correction protocol, on single qubit, and move forward from there. So it's just your basic principle behind our technology that was demonstrated in that paper.

Kevin Rowney:So interesting. And and this is, this is excellent. Sounds like advancements in error control both on your bit flip and on on phase error. Right? It's like you're Mhmm.

Kevin Rowney:You're really demonstrating, significant advances both, both frontiers.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Yeah. Exactly. So the this 24% is actually average over, the different states, that that would, that would, compose that that part. So it it indeed includes both bit and phase flip, in that case. So this is an average between the the two rates.

Kevin Rowney:Wow. And and again, done autonomously and on top of all of that, it sounds like you've got, some new results with respect to QEC parameters as well. You were able to, look at the operating parameters of these systems and make new advances there. Can you can you comment on that in more detail?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:What are you exactly do you do?

Kevin Rowney:The the the results around QEC parameters that was talked about in the paper. It it it sounds as if you've got, new results on, yeah, essentially fine tuning these systems to get them to, yeah.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Yeah. Exactly. I mean, so this is something we we this is something that, yes, we we work with. So, there's a lot of parameters to play with inside these quantum error correction, protocols. Started with the vanilla protocol, from theory doesn't always cut it, so we need to optimize.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:There's a lot of a lot of work also that, we've been doing involving also, our close friend, that's true control. So we we use also their their solution to try to optimize this, system, and we were successful doing this. So I think this is what you were referring to. So, trying to find ways also to to optimize the system. This is something, that is still a hot topic on our case.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:So what what is the optimal? How can we get the their, easy be on each qubit? So this is, definitely something that we are still working on.

Kevin Rowney:Yeah. I mean I mean, Sebastian, it just feels like this is really a a standout approach that could produce, some pretty interesting commercial advances. I mean, I I don't know the landscape entirely of of the different competitors in the mix, but it it does seem as if there's there's real novelty

Sebastian Hassinger:here. Yeah. The the autonomous nature is really exciting. I mean, the the idea of being able to detect and correct errors without that round trip to the the to the room temp and the classical computing in some cases, it that's really, potentially huge advantage. I mean, I'm curious, like, when you when you look at at other, schemes for producing logical cubits, there's often sort of a ratio.

Sebastian Hassinger:Right? The the quantum LDPC codes that, IBM is pursuing is something like, it's a 288 physical cubits for 12 logical cubits. The the Cuera approach with neutral atoms is something like, 280 q physical atoms as cubits that are, producing 48 logical cubits. Do you have a similar sense of in your system architecture, what kind of ratio you would you'd end up with with with sort of those those fault tolerant logical cubits to physical, physical devices?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Yes. I mean, so it's it's a bit different in the case of, of Poisson codes. Although when you're talking about the architecture, this is what matter in the end. So, I mean, you have these qubits, what we need to perform something interesting. The way we we like to think about this right now is that now with these qubits, we also have a no a knob, to turn, which is this quantum refraction of on single single devices, single units, where we can, reduce error rates on on these qubits before having to to concatenate it into one of the codes that that you've mentioned.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:And this is really our focus right now, trying to to push that thing as as slow as possible

Kevin Rowney:Okay.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:For thinking about, like, concatenate thing in into a code. And there's also other opportunity. There's, also other codes that are, like, only applicable to those next systems that that we are looking into. And this is this is something that will be coming up in into our architecture as soon as

Kevin Rowney:I see. I suspect that that would be at the another follow on, paper, perhaps with the follow on conversation as as Yeah. Reports arrive. Definitely.

Sebastian Hassinger:That's cool. So so am I right in thinking that, like you said, you're you're trying to optimize the performance of single qubits. And in a sense, that's almost an error mitigation. I mean, it there's a there's a fuzzy line between error mitigation and error correction. There's there's some error correction going on in the the value of the qubit itself, but error correction in the broader sense, in the algorithmic sense, like a surface code or an LDPC, that's, as you said, concatenating together the results from multiple qubits.

Sebastian Hassinger:So you'd still need to do some kind of, error correction scheme at that that algorithmic level.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:When we think about bosonic codes, something that that we we like about these systems is is not only the fact that they can be error corrected, but this also calls in for the different opportunity when you think about the the full scale architecture. And you were talking about, these these other codes, like surface codes or or QLDBC codes or or or name your favorite code here. Bosynix codes also have the opportunity to be used as, elements within these, higher level code. So with this, we call concatenation. And what's interesting in that case is, before because we are doing quantum error correction on single of these these qubits, we can also have better knowledge of which qubit is faulty and which is not.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:And this is something that can be, leveraged in inside one of these codes to do better decoding, and be and build a more efficient platform. And this is really what what we are trying to build at, Moritz. Build a a more efficient platform, require fewer resources to to reach default tolerance.

Sebastian Hassinger:That's really

Kevin Rowney:So, it's a it's a multi tier architecture you could almost do. And and it it opens up, you know, room for optimism that we could be sometime soon with results from your group approaching the quantum, the critical quantum error correction threshold where there would be sustainable operations for a logical qubit that could operate in a relatively error free amount of time for a long, long interval. I mean, it it it feels like there's, I don't know, a route towards some really huge achievements here.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Yeah. Exactly. This is this is what we are working towards.

Sebastian Hassinger:So try to

Kevin Rowney:There it is.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:You make one of our refraction and and, yeah, that's the mission statement here. So, yeah, we're really, trying to push push this limit. But we take it in in to a different approach. So we're not trying to concatenate Qubes that we have at hand first. We're really trying to push down the error rates, on on on these Yes.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Bosonic system.

Sebastian Hassinger:Right.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:And of course, as we speak, we're we're we're also working with the more complex architecture in the involving many of these, these physical units.

Sebastian Hassinger:So have you focused primarily on, like, you know, t 1, t 2, and and, single qubit gate fidelities, or are you already looking at sort of 2 qubit gate fidelities as well?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:All the of the above. So who we are working into all these directions. The numbers will be out there at some point. So this is something that is, for internal r and d right now. In the paper, what the focus is on, really quantum error correction benchmark.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:In that case, it's more using this, the qubit as a memory if you'd like, trying to see how long, how quantum error correction can extend the lifetime. This is really a proof of concept. And from there, we can move to gates, and also to to pivot gates on on our later latest generation systems.

Sebastian Hassinger:Got it. And you mentioned the Transmon, being part of of the sort of the universal set of operations. Is that how does that compare you know, how do you implement a universal set of operations in a in a bosonic mode versus, the fermionic, the CO so pure pure fermionic operation with transplant?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:I mean, for any quantum system, what you need is an Indiana universal set of gates, to to be able to do whatever you want. In in our case, let's say that the first task that we are up to is, encoding the system into these bosonic codes. And to do this, we we need a gate. We need 2 things. So we need a gate.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:We need also the the universal control over the transmon, which is for free in super connecting circuits. We know the transmon really well. This is something that is easy. And also being able to drive the cavity. So it's just support that goes in our cavity, and we can drive it.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:And then, using the transmon and the cavity drive, we implement what we call this ECD gate. So echo conditional displacement gate. And this gate is really, like, the bread and butter and not and large. This is really the gate that we are using for any operation, state preparation, but also quantum error correction.

Sebastian Hassinger:Interesting. That's cool. It's always fascinating to me how, you know, the the different sets of operations and, quantum unitary operations that need to be sort of, exploited to get to that universal set of operations.

Kevin Rowney:Oh, they manifest. Yeah. And they are Yeah.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Kevin Rowney:Pretty cool. Yeah.

Sebastian Hassinger:Yeah. It is. It's exotic. You know, so what in terms of, you know, this research paper, what do you sort of see as your sort of next steps? Is it further exploitation of the of the quantum error correction or, or you're moving on to to other topics?

Julien Camirand Lemyre:I'm both. I'm I'm both. Both. Of course. So, of course.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Yes. Exactly. So, so what we showed in the paper is 24% increase. So, we need to do better, and we're working on it. Some of the aspects involve having better hardware.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:This is something that that will come up from your company. But some of the other thing, we've discussed it. So quantum refraction is a very important tool, and we have not stopped exploring what what is possible with with the protocols that we already have, but improving the protocols, but also think thinking about, different sort of protocols that can enhance, properties of our crime crime error correction cycles. And the other part, of course, is better more com building, sorry, a more complex architecture in developing many of these codes, as individual, qubits. So this is this is also part of the next steps is the things that are coming for NORD.

Sebastian Hassinger:So it's a

Kevin Rowney:little bit foundational work on a, yeah, key question. So, I I don't wanna push too hard, but could you give us an approximate timeline where the next big wave of results are coming out? Because, you know, we're we're interested in in knowing, more about the future here. It seems seems very promising.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:I mean, the summer let's say, the summer will be important for us. So we we are working with these systems right now. We are working toward achieving results, when it will be out, you you'll witness it at the same time as us. I guess. Okay.

Kevin Rowney:Fair enough. As as as CEO should say

Julien Camirand Lemyre:it. Yes. Exactly. Precisely.

Sebastian Hassinger:Well, that's really exciting, Julian. We've we've really enjoyed, hearing more about your approach. I think, you know, if you can deliver some level of hardware, you know, autonomous air correction down at at the at the qubit level, that's obviously an incredible, boom to the field and and, exciting things for it to come from Norquatique. So thank you very much for joining us.

Kevin Rowney:Thank you so much for your time.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Thanks for having me. It was a great pleasure to to discuss with you these important topics. It's our pleasure. Thanks.

Kevin Rowney:Wow. That wasn't that cool, Sebastian? That's a feels like feels like breakthrough research. I mean, I don't I don't know the landscape entirely, but, the the novelty of this approach, right, where, you know, a a transmon circuit, right, is sloshing these Cooper pairs back and forth. It's this harmonic system.

Kevin Rowney:And, of course, everybody realizes that you can create a quasi particle in those systems that exactly represents.

Sebastian Hassinger:Yeah. That's old facts.

Kevin Rowney:A a cubit. That's that's the old news. Right? But but in this this whole approach, right, I mean, there are sort of you could use, in in some parts of this system, transmons as classic cubits and other parts as harmonic oscillators that create an entire bosonic, you know, a quasi particle with, like, you know, essentially infinite dimensional number of

Julien Camirand Lemyre:Yeah.

Kevin Rowney:Of energy levels. And that's and that's the pathway for redundancy they do for this quantum error correction. So I

Sebastian Hassinger:get the the redundancy, but but, you know, just take us back to sort of basics for a second, Kevin. Like Yeah. So so a a typical transmon, your run of the mill transmon super boring. Yeah. It's from it's a fermionic system.

Sebastian Hassinger:Right?

Kevin Rowney:Those Well, I mean, let's let's be careful because I mean, really,

Sebastian Hassinger:I mean,

Kevin Rowney:what what trans bonds are doing is, you know, there's this, it's Josephson junction. It's, essentially set up to in the superconducting mode. These not electrons, but Cooper pairs are jumping back and forth, and there's a harmonic, oscillation of the system. The the the standard way in firmware you can set up those oscillations is to make it so that the quasi particle that that is created from the en mass movement of these Cooper pairs, is, you know, essentially the same as isomorphic 2. Right?

Kevin Rowney:What a, a cubit of of a single electron would be theoretically. Right? That there's a a witness

Sebastian Hassinger:And and an electron state of

Kevin Rowney:Exactly. Exactly. Right. And so the the the spin state of those electrons is the the, theoretical framework that you've learned in Right. Quantum information science to sort on which quantum computing rests.

Kevin Rowney:But you can create a lot of different, you know, evidently, quasi particles, of of different types from the different vibration patterns inside these these transponds. And so, you know, the the bosonic system and now you've got a whole whole, lattice of of energy levels. They just keep rising. I guess it would just be a sequence. And you that those those, essentially infinite numbers of of energy levels inside this harmonic system, again, is the is the, you know, key technical innovation they're exploring around giving a a ton of room for quantum error correction.

Kevin Rowney:I mean, really in the end, you know, the classic, Gottesman, Cotev Press Scale error correction algorithm. It really was fundamentally based first on bosonic systems. See, whether or not they had a wrap towards implementation at the at the time, I don't know. But here it is. It's it's it's realizing the the deep power of the of

Sebastian Hassinger:the And and photons are are bosonic. Right?

Kevin Rowney:That's right. That's right.

Sebastian Hassinger:It's it's the microwave photons in the system that they're treating as,

Kevin Rowney:That's right. I mean, right. I mean and right. And they're, it's a tricky thing in this context because often, again, these these swarms of these Cooper pairs, these paired electrons inside a superconducting state are are are producing quasi particles. And so that we it it those those things are not really, subatomic particles or quasi particles, but they have, you know, isomer who

Sebastian Hassinger:They exhibit the papers. Right. So

Kevin Rowney:just like a subatomic particle. Yeah. Right.

Sebastian Hassinger:The the weirdness of superconductivity

Kevin Rowney:Isn't it now?

Sebastian Hassinger:Never ceases to Yes. Yeah. I get the point. It's been we've been obsessed with it since 1911 or whatever.

Kevin Rowney:Yeah. I mean, there's already a huge set of abstractions to to just to digest on computer architecture. Right? I mean, you know, like, down at the CPU and up to assembly and then set, you know, up to operating system. But here also, I mean, there's, like, numerous different layers of, you know, what what are we talking about in terms of a Yeah.

Kevin Rowney:A particle. Right? And Well, then you're making terms of the the architecture. Yeah.

Sebastian Hassinger:And and putting it in terms of computer architecture, that's sort of my strongest, you know, resonance with this result is that, essentially, they're implementing error correction at the quantum hardware level, whereas previous approaches have required, a round trip for all error correction to the the room temp classical computing. It's one of the the critical sort of unanswered questions is can we implement, error correction without incurring so much overhead from the classical part of the error correction that you can't actually realize the, the performance advantage of the quantum Right.

Kevin Rowney:Which which seems like a question which has now been positively answered by this really interesting result. So Yes. I I can't wait to see the next wave, of of their work, man.

Sebastian Hassinger:It's gonna be cool. Yeah. Absolutely. No. I I mean, I we we I'm glad you sort of probed on timeline, and we didn't really get we got a very, as you said, sort of cautious appropriate response, but I'm dying to see, then get get a system into the market that people can start playing with.

Sebastian Hassinger:That would be really, really exciting.

Kevin Rowney:Yeah. Such exciting times.

Sebastian Hassinger:Yep. As always.

Julien Camirand Lemyre:That's great.

Kevin Rowney:Cool. Good stuff. Right? I appreciate this time. Yeah.

Kevin Rowney:It's fun times. Looking forward to the next, next one, Sebastian. Thanks for Likewise. Setting this up.

Sebastian Hassinger:Thanks, Kevin.

Kevin Rowney:Okay. That's it for this episode of The New Quantum Era, a podcast by Sebastian Hassinger and Kevin Roney. Our cool theme music was composed and played by Omar Costa Hamido. Production work is done by our wonderful team over at Podfi. If you are at all like us and enjoy this rich, deep, and interesting topic, please subscribe to our podcast on whichever platform you may stream from, And even consider, if you like what you've heard today, reviewing us on iTunes and or mentioning us on your preferred social media platforms.

Kevin Rowney:We're just trying to get the word out on this fascinating topic and would really appreciate your help spreading the word and building community. Thank you so much for your time.